Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/pc/text/spacedig/v15_1/v15no190.txt

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Date: Sat, 12 Sep 92 05:08:31
From: Space Digest maintainer <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
Subject: Space Digest V15 #190
To: Space Digest Readers
Precedence: bulk


Space Digest                Sat, 12 Sep 92       Volume 15 : Issue 190

Today's Topics:
                      Arstrong's Boots (2 msgs)
         Debunking Modern Myths (was  Re: Is NASA really...)
         Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars? (5 msgs)
            Jupiter's Magnetic Field Shaped by Solar Wind
                      Magellan Update - 09/11/92
                     NOAA Technical reports list?
              One small step for a space act. vol 3 no 9
      One Small Step for a Space Activist... Vol 3 No 9 (3 msgs)
             Shuttle Replacement (was: One Small Step...)
                             Terraforming
                          Terraforming Mars
                   Terraforming needs to begin now

    Welcome to the Space Digest!!  Please send your messages to
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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 92 19:20:53 GMT
From: George Hastings <[e-mail]>
Subject: Arstrong's Boots
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] writes:  > I was aked today a question by
someone who hadn't even thought of all of the useful things I
know about the moon. A typical non scientist! He asked me "What
material was used to make Neil Armstron's boots?" He needed the
answer for a lecture on ?? and was serious in his request.  > >
I don't know where on earth to look. Does anyone out there know
the answer?  > > [e-mail] > Science Centre > Fax:
61-42-213151

I'm assuming that Armstrong wore the standard, custom-fitted,
hand-made Apollo Lunar EVA boots made by Hamilton-Standard. If
so, then the regular space suit boots were protected by special
overshoes for extra layers of insulation. (The astronuats
called them their "little blue booties!")
   The blue silicone rubber soles formed the bottom, and curved
up around the sides all around for three inches. The white
outer top layer was "beta-cloth", made from Teflon-coated
fiberglass cloth. Inside that, there were multiple, alternating
layers of non-woven dacron and aluminized mylar plastic. There
was also a sole insert of felt, I don't know what material.
--

------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 92 21:12:14 GMT
From: SCOTT I CHASE <[e-mail]>
Subject: Arstrong's Boots
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (George Hastings) writes...
>[e-mail] writes:  > I was aked today a question by
>someone who hadn't even thought of all of the useful things I
>know about the moon. A typical non scientist! He asked me "What
>material was used to make Neil Armstron's boots?" He needed the
>answer for a lecture on ?? and was serious in his request.  > >

Haven't you followed the "Heavy Boots" thread?  Your friend probably
thinks that Armstrong would have floated away when trying to walk on
the moon if his boots weren't heavy enough.  That leads to the natural
question "What *were* his boots made of, anyway?"

-Scott
--------------------
Scott I. Chase            "The question seems to be of such a character
[e-mail]        that if I should come to life after my death
                and some mathematician were to tell me that it
                had been definitely settled, I think I would
                immediately drop dead again."      - Vandiver

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:25:36 GMT
From: Paul Dietz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Debunking Modern Myths (was  Re: Is NASA really...)
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <ryvnn1#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:

 > Let's see: China and India are hovering on the raged edge of
 > subsistance right now. Most of Africa is one meal away from
 > starvation. -- Why that means that more than half of the world is
 > bearly producing enough food to exist and no more.

China and India are better fed than they have ever been.  Over the
last 15 years, China's per capita economic growth rate has been the
highest in the world.  The private sector there is now about as large
as the public (not bad in a nominally communist country!)  and growing
explosively, with double digit annual growth rates.  India's economic
growth has been slower, but they appear to be finally loosening their
stifling bureaucracy.  The world food problem is mostly one of having
adequate purchasing power (there is more than enough food on the
market, as witnessed by world food prices that have nearly continually
fallen with time.)

The number of undernourished people in the world is actually
*decreasing*.  Nearly the only part of the world that has really
serious problems is Africa, but that is not because of overpopulation.
Africa could feed many times its current population if they did not
suffer from criminally dysfunctional governments and other social
problems.

Did you know that in his later years, Malthus became one of the first
anti-Malthusians?

    Paul F. Dietz
    [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 92 19:24:44 GMT
From: "Thomas H. Kunich" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Don Roberts) writes:
>
>Haven't we had about enough of this [Malthusianism--ed.]in the last 200
>years?? Ever since Malthus first came up with the idea, we've been in
>Imminent Peril of choking the planet with people. Fortunately, there have
>been enough people (!) cleverer than ol' Tom that we've managed well enough.
>Try telling the people in Singapore, Japan, or Taiwan that high population
>densities guarantee abject poverty and starvation. Ever stop to think there
>might be more to it than that?
>
Let's see: China and India are hovering on the raged edge of subsistance
right now. Most of Africa is one meal away from starvation. -- Why that means
that more than half of the world is bearly producing enough food to exist
and no more.

Argentina, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States are producing
significant surpluses of food, yet not enough to supply the rest of the
world in a single bad harvest year.

Direct extropolation of the world's population shows a doubling in the
next 50 years.

With, presently, only some 25% of the world's population having good and
sufficient food it leaves me wondering how wrong Malthus was.

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 19:51:23 GMT
From: "Thomas H. Kunich" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering) writes:
B
>> (something about 'containing' a nuclear explosion being poppycock.)nt.
>
>Ever wonder what underground nuclear testing did?

In this identical vein, atmospheric nuclear explosions were contained
by the atmosphere.
>
>

------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 92 20:37:16 GMT
From: Don Roberts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <ryvnn1#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:

>Let's see: China and India are hovering on the raged edge of subsistence
>right now. Most of Africa is one meal away from starvation. -- Why that means
>that more than half of the world is bearly producing enough food to exist
>and no more.

Ah yes, we use the examples of two nations with incredibly corrupt and
inefficient systems of political economy, and a continent that's been
wracked by tribal and civil warfare, and assume the whole planet acts that
way. Very good.

Anyway, you're stats on China and India are out of date. Since privatising
agricultural production in the last ten years, China is doing quite
nicely, food-wise (Tanks-over-protesters-wise is another story). The
Indians are falling all over themselves at the moment discovering new ways
to free up their market and generate wealth. The fall of the Congress
Party from power following Rajiv Ghandi's assassination may turn out to be
one of the best things that ever happened to India (it's tragic personal
dimension aside). As for Africa, any discussion of famine in places like
Ethiopia, Somalia, etc. that doesn't take into account the political roots
of the problem is hopelessly naive.

By the way, whether or not you agree with my interpretation, the mere fact
that I can plausibly cite factors other than population as proximate causes
for famine demonstrates that Malthus oversimplified.

>Argentina, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States are producing
>significant surpluses of food, yet not enough to supply the rest of the
>world in a single bad harvest year.

Let's not forget Europe, which is awash in EC price-supported grain.
Interesting that the places that have the *least* problem with food
shortages have the *most* advanced technology--and free(ish) markets.
Wonder what Malthus would say?

>Direct extrapolation of the world's population shows a doubling in the
>next 50 years.

Direct extrapolation?? What about the falling in birth rates in developed
countries? The trick is technological and economic development, not forcing
Africans at gunpoint not to have babies.

>With, presently, only some 25% of the world's population having good and
>sufficient food it leaves me wondering how wrong Malthus was.

Well, since we've ticked China over into the "plenty-o-food" category,
that makes it more like 50%. India's not in such bad shape (certainly
not by Malthusian standards), so there's another 15% or so. Let's call
it 65-70%. Could be better (and will be), but it's not the End of The
World.

Malthus was a boob.

No, that's not fair. *He* didn't know any better.
--
 Dr. Donald W. Roberts
   University of California                                      Physicist
   Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory         Recreational Bodybuilder
   [e-mail]                                           Renaissance Dude

------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 92 20:34:36 GMT
From: Doug Mohney <[e-mail]>
Subject: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <ryvnn1#[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Don Roberts) writes:
>>
>>Haven't we had about enough of this [Malthusianism--ed.]in the last 200
>>years?? Ever since Malthus first came up with the idea, we've been in
>>Imminent Peril of choking the planet with people. Fortunately, there have
>>been enough people (!) cleverer than ol' Tom that we've managed well enough.
>>Try telling the people in Singapore, Japan, or Taiwan that high population
>>densities guarantee abject poverty and starvation. Ever stop to think there
>>might be more to it than that?
>>
>Let's see: China and India are hovering on the raged edge of subsistance
>right now.

The chinese would find your assessment quite funny. No one starving over there.
Everyone has enough money to spoil the (one) child permitted under law. Perhaps
you envy the draconian measures taken to curb population control?

The Indian goverment has enough money to develop nuclear weapons and a budding
space program, plus purchase a surplus carrier from the (former) Soviet Union.
Now, how SHOULD they spend their resources? You also might wanna take a look at
what the Green Revolution did for India.

>Most of Africa is one meal away from starvation. -- Why that means
>that more than half of the world is bearly producing enough food to exist
>and no more.

Those parts of Africa which ARE starving are starving due to tribal political
warfare. You want to rage and foam at the mouth, why don't you take a look at
the Ethopian goverment, which blew hundreds of millions of dollars to celebrate
their reign, while their people STARVED.

Attempts to provide food (for free) to Somalia are stopped not due to a
shortage of food but due to armed bands of tribal thugs.

>Argentina, Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States are producing
>significant surpluses of food, yet not enough to supply the rest of the
>world in a single bad harvest year.

Bogus. We annually give away food and pay (PAY!!!) farmers NOT to plant fields
so the price of grain stays stable.

>Direct extropolation of the world's population shows a doubling in the
>next 50 years.

Sure. But nothing is direct in the world.

>With, presently, only some 25% of the world's population having good and
>sufficient food it leaves me wondering how wrong Malthus was.

If we could turn the rest of the world into good capitalists, they'd be
complaining about obesity and heart disease.


                 Play in the intelluctual sandbox of Usenet

  -- >                  [e-mail]                        < --

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 20:54:12 GMT
From: "Michael V. Kent" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Is NASA really planning to Terraform Mars?
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <ryvnn1#[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Thomas H. Kunich) writes:
>>
>Let's see: China and India are hovering on the raged edge of subsistance
>right now. Most of Africa is one meal away from starvation. -- Why that means
>that more than half of the world is bearly producing enough food to exist
>and no more.

Africa has a distribution problem due largely to its long-term civil wars.
This is not a food-supply problem.

>With, presently, only some 25% of the world's population having good and
>sufficient food it leaves me wondering how wrong Malthus was.

The per capita food consumption is higher now than it ever was, and the
UN recently released a report that global life expectancy increased
three months last year alone.  Despite all of the population growth, the
standard of living keeps improving.

Mike

--
Michael Kent                                   [e-mail]
McDonnell Douglas                              Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
All facts in this post are based on publicly available information.  All
opinions expressed are solely those of the author.    Apple II Forever !!

------------------------------

Date: 12 Sep 92 04:43:04 GMT
From: Ron Baalke <[e-mail]>
Subject: Jupiter's Magnetic Field Shaped by Solar Wind
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary

Michael Braukus
Headquarters, Washington, D.C.                       September 11, 1992
(Phone:  [phone])

Diane Ainsworth
Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif.
(Phone:  [phone])

RELEASE:  92-145

JUPITER'S MAGNETIC FIELD SHAPED BY SOLAR WIND

    Scientists studying data from Jupiter's highly charged magnetic
environment -- acquired by the Ulysses spacecraft encounter in February
1992 -- reported in a series of papers published today that the solar wind
exerts a much stronger influence on the planet's magnetic field than
previously thought.

    The discovery was the result of Ulysses' unique trajectory, which took
the spacecraft to higher latitudes near the planet than were reached by
previous spacecraft, said JPL Ulysses Project Scientist Dr. Edward J. Smith,
principal author of one of seven articles published today in Science magazine.

    "In addition, Ulysses' outbound path took the spacecraft through
another previously unexplored region in the dusk sector, where we had never
been before," Smith said.

    Three separate findings during the Jupiter encounter supported this
conclusion, Smith said.  The first evidence was derived from Ulysses' flight
through the high latitude region of  the magnetic field -- called the
magnetosphere -- in which the planetary magnetic field lines led out into
interplanetary space rather than returning to Jupiter across the equator.

     "Five of the experiments sensed this transition simultaneously, once
at a distance of only 7 planetary radii (500,000 miles) and a second time at a
distance of 15 radii (1.1 million miles)," Smith said.

    The second major surprise occurred as the spacecraft was traveling
outbound.  Measurements showed that the magnetic field was not rotating
with the planet but was being swept downstream toward the magnetic tail of
the magnetosphere, Smith said.

    "This property was seen well inside the magnetosphere at large
distances from the boundary with the solar wind," Smith said.  "It is,
nevertheless, attributed by scientists to a dragging effect of the solar wind
on the magnetosphere."

    The third piece of the puzzle leading the Ulysses teams to this
conclusion was the identification of a thick layer just inside the boundary of
the magnetosphere in which solar wind particles and Jovian particles appear
to be intermingling, and the magnetic field is not rotating with the planet.

    "Scientists interpreted these observations to imply that magnetic field
lines are being peeled away from the magnetosphere by the solar wind,"
Smith said.

    Jupiter's magnetic field, the largest in the solar system, forms a
windsock -- the magnetosphere -- that is blown by the solar wind.  The
magnetosphere is known to vary in size and configuration over time
depending on the amount of force exerted on it by the solar wind.  Millions of
highly charged particles swirl and bounce around within this magnetic bubble
and many of them eventually escape into interplanetary space.

    Smith published his findings along with Dr. Edgar Page, European
Space Agency (ESA) science coordinator, and ESA Project Manager Dr. Klaus-
Peter Wenzel.  Other results of Ulysses' milestone flight past Jupiter were
reported in subsequent articles.

    "Jupiter is like a cosmic-ray source spewing these things out into
interplanetary space all the time," said co-author Page. "The energy probably
comes from the planet's rapid rotation every 10 hours."  Smith said scientists
have made similar observations of the effects of the solar wind on Earth's
magnetosphere.

    "At Earth, magnetic fields at high latitudes lead out into space,
magnetic fields on the flanks of the magnetosphere are pulled tailward and a
boundary layer exists adjacent to the solar wind flowing around the
magnetosphere," he said.

    "For many years, theorists have believed that the solar wind was
exerting much less influence on the giant, strongly magnetized Jupiter than
on the smaller magnetosphere of Earth," Smith said.  "The latest results do
not mean that Jupiter is like the Earth in all aspects, but theorists aware of
the new Ulysses results are now revising their ideas."

    Ulysses is a joint NASA-ESA mission to study the poles of the sun and
will begin its primary mission in June 1994.
- end -
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Anything is impossible if
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | you don't attempt it.
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     |

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1992 04:37:33 GMT
From: Ron Baalke <[e-mail]>
Subject: Magellan Update - 09/11/92
Newsgroups: sci.space,sci.astro,alt.sci.planetary

Forwarded from the Magellan Project

                      MAGELLAN STATUS REPORT
                        September 11, 1992

1.   Magellan has continued successful radar mapping
     operations since the restart on Thursday, 3 September.
     The area currently being mapped is the last significant
     unmapped region, covering 1.5% of Venus.  When finished
     on 13 September, the total mapped area will reach 99
     percent of the planet.

2.   Transmitter B's temperature remains near 58 C, varying
     about 2 C during the course of each orbit.  The symbol
     signal to noise ratio (SSNR) is positive during both 34
     meter HEF (High Efficiency) station passes and 70 meter
     passes which Magellan is sharing with Pioneer Venus Orbiter.

3.   Next Monday, 14 September 1992, Magellan will perform an
     orbit trim maneuver to lower the orbit periapsis altitude
     from 258 to 182 kilometers.  This will enhance gravity
     data collection for the beginning of Cycle-4 on 15
     September 1992.  The prime objective of Cycle-4 is to
     obtain a global map of the Venus gravity field from the
     new elliptical orbit.

4.   Also next week, in parallel with gravity operations, a
     week-long period of battery reconditioning will also be
     started.
     ___    _____     ___
    /_ /|  /____/ \  /_ /|     Ron Baalke         | [e-mail]
    | | | |  __ \ /| | | |     Jet Propulsion Lab |
 ___| | | | |__) |/  | | |__   M/S 525-3684 Telos | Anything is impossible if
/___| | | |  ___/    | |/__ /| Pasadena, CA 91109 | you don't attempt it.
|_____|/  |_|/       |_____|/                     |

------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 92 18:13:25 GMT
From: TDG SANDFORD <[e-mail]>
Subject: NOAA Technical reports list?
Newsgroups: sci.space

I am trying to get hold of a list of NOAA/NESDIS technical reports
(technical info on / uses of the NOAA-X series of satellites). Does anyone
have such a list they could send me? Or have an email address of an
appropriate contact at NOAA/NESDIS (? M. Hughes ?)

Please email to me - I'll post a follow-up if there's enough interest.
--
Thomas Sandford | [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 16:06:10 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Phil G. Fraering)
Subject: One small step for a space act. vol 3 no 9

Allen Sherzer writes:
\In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael V. Kent) writes:

/>I, personally, believe a Delta Clipper, HL-20, or NASP-derived vehicle will
\>be funded very shortly after PMC (well, probably EMCC).

/How? All the money which could be used will be spent on Freedom and
\Shuttle.

/I hope we will get Delta Clipper, it is the only bright spot on the
\horizion. But if we do get it I hope you realize what an inditement
/it will be against the buisness as usual attitude at NASA.

\  Allen

BTW, did anyone _read_ the text of Al Gore's Birmingham speech?
He blasted the Bush admin for spending money on "wild ideas"
like Brilliant Pebbles instead of channeling it to Huntsville
where it belonged.

Ugh.

--
Phil Fraering [e-mail] where the x is a number from 1-5.
Phone: [phone] SnailMail: 2408 Blue Haven Dr., New Iberia, La. 70560
If seven maids with seven brooms swept for half a year,
do you think, the Walrus asked, that they could make it clear?
I doubt it, said the Carpenter, and shed a bitter tear.
---------
"NOAH!"                        \           \ Lewis Carrol
"Yes lord?"                     > Bill Cosby, The Story of Noah
"HOW LONG CAN YOU TREAD WATER?"/

------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 92 18:28:39 GMT
From: "Michael V. Kent" <[e-mail]>
Subject: One Small Step for a Space Activist... Vol 3 No 9
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:
>In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Michael V. Kent) writes:
>
>>I, personally, believe a Delta Clipper, HL-20, or NASP-derived vehicle will
>>be funded very shortly after PMC (well, probably EMCC).
>
>Aurora-derived? :-)

Let's see, we have a stealth recce, a Mach 5 spyplane, and now a secret
2STO.  Hmmmmm.  Has anyone checked on Nick's asteroids lately?  Maybe they
are already starting to "disappear."  :)

And we wondered why Halley's comet wasn't as bright as it should be!

Mike

--
Michael Kent                                   [e-mail]
McDonnell Douglas                              Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute

All facts in this post are based on publicly available information.  All
opinions expressed are solely those of the author.    Apple II Forever !!

------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 92 18:23:50 GMT
From: "Allen W. Sherzer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: One Small Step for a Space Activist... Vol 3 No 9
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael V. Kent) writes:

>I, personally, believe a Delta Clipper, HL-20, or NASP-derived vehicle will
>be funded very shortly after PMC (well, probably EMCC).

How? All the money which could be used will be spent on Freedom and
Shuttle.

I hope we will get Delta Clipper, it is the only bright spot on the
horizion. But if we do get it I hope you realize what an inditement
it will be against the buisness as usual attitude at NASA.

  Allen

--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  [e-mail]     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------225 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 92 19:21:04 GMT
From: "Michael V. Kent" <[e-mail]>
Subject: One Small Step for a Space Activist... Vol 3 No 9
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Allen W. Sherzer) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Michael V. Kent) writes:
>
>>I, personally, believe a Delta Clipper, HL-20, or NASP-derived vehicle will
>>be funded very shortly after PMC (well, probably EMCC).
>
>How? All the money which could be used will be spent on Freedom and
>Shuttle.

I'm thinking of the Shuttle + Shuttle payloads budget as an operations
budget and what is now the Freedom budget as a development budget.  As
the destination of the Shuttle changes from free-flight to SSF, the cost
impact will not be drastic.  It's mainly a change of destination.  Most
of the $2 billion we spend of SSF R&D will be available for other pro-
jects.

From this money, I expect about $1G - $1.5G to be spent on this Personnel
Launch System.  The remaining $500M will probably be spent on an OMV,
better spacesuits, and some type of free-flyer.

There are two main assumptions in this model:

1) Freedom support costs will not greatly exceed current Shuttle + payload
   costs.  I expect and increase of a few $100M, but way less than a billion.

2) The NASA budget will remain steady at about $15 billion per year.

Actually, there's a third assumption:

3) Another loss of vehicle will not significantly alter annual costs but
   instead result in fewer free-flying payloads.

The money will be tight, but it will be there.  But I don't see a Shuttle
replacement vehicle funded in earnest from the current NASA budget until
after EMCC.

Note: If Delta Clipper actually works, it's a whole new ballgame.

Mike

--
Michael Kent                                   [e-mail]
McDonnell Douglas                              Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute
All facts in this post are based on publicly available information.  All
opinions expressed are solely those of the author.    Apple II Forever !!

------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 92 18:21:05 GMT
From: "Allen W. Sherzer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Shuttle Replacement (was: One Small Step...)
Newsgroups: talk.politics.space,sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] writes:

>Goldin says we should consider the Shuttle program to last "at least"
>until 2005, but not much beyond that.  12 years != forever.

we could probobally make it last until 2012 or so. At that time, and
only then unless radical changes are made, will the funds be available
to build the replacement the government way. Add another fifteen years
to actually build it and we are looking at 35 years.

I'm getting on in years and for me that 35 years just might be
forever.

>No word on where a Shuttle replacement might come from, or how it
>would be funded.

Exactly.

  Allen
--
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Allen W. Sherzer | "If they can put a man on the Moon, why can't they     |
|  [e-mail]     |  put a man on the Moon?"                               |
+----------------------225 DAYS TO FIRST FLIGHT OF DCX----------------------+

------------------------------

Date: 11 Sep 92 20:15:13 GMT
From: Nick Janow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Terraforming
Newsgroups: sci.space

[e-mail] (John Roberts) writes:

> I believe that portion of the discussion involved a search for terrestrial
> organisms that could live on Mars unmodified. I believe the Viking tests
> found *no* organic material, and they should have found some from meteorite
> impacts.

The discussion wandered a bit, and I got the impression that the "Mars' surface
conditions would kill any Terran life" argument was being used to argue against
_any_ life able to exist there.  Viking scratched only the superoxidized
surface; would it have noticed silica fibres?

> There's a desert plant (related to cactus, I think) that's mainly
> underground, with a transparent upper coating to let light through. However,
> in that case, I'm pretty sure the transparent coating is living tissue.

That's the one I had in mind.  That plant merely proves the concept; another
plant could easily apply inorganic light pipes.  I could imagine bamboo
evolving something like that if surface conditions deteriorated.

--

[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1992 08:40:25 GMT
From: brad thornborrow <[e-mail]>
Subject: Terraforming Mars
Newsgroups: sci.space

Date Entered: 09-11-92 03:35
N.>The entire organism could be underground, using silica fibres to the s
N.>light pipes.  I think some Terran life forms use something like this (
N.>plants that use light pipes).
N.>
N.>Limiting your thoughts to Terran organic processes leaves out a _lot_
N.>possibilities.
N.>
N.>--
N.>
N.>[e-mail]
N.>

Am I missing something,

        I havn't been following the entire conversation here, but it seems
to me everybody is missing the gravity problem.  Last time I checked,
Mars' gravity was not strong enough to keep oxygen molecules from escaping
into space over time.  So, even if one could start plant-life on Mars,
you'd have to have a heck of a lot of it to keep the oxygen from just
"floating away"!!!

More wood for the fire!!!

Brad T.


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Date: Fri, 11 Sep 92 20:15:19 GMT
From: "Thomas H. Kunich" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Terraforming needs to begin now
Newsgroups: sci.space

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (pete) writes:
>
>Jeez that's bizarre. I had that exact idea some 10 years ago, in
>detail. Plus a few more twists: use the glass to form solar mirrors
>to fire the glass factories, and use the fresh water to grow crops
>on the ground sheltered from direct sunlight beneath the evaporation
>panels. The vapour is condensed by cool sea water flowing into the
>system along the tops of the evaporators.
>     I see 2 major problems with this scheme, besides labour:
>1) glass requires lime, to lower its melting point, and yield
>a strong product. Also sand must be very white to yield transparent
>glass.
>2) how do you pump the seawater cheaply?

1) This is a minor problem that is easily paid for by the
produce of The farming allowed by the presense of fresh water
and virtually unlimited sunlight. Of course, the bunny huggers
would argue that we are des~roying the pristine beauty of the
Sahara Desert with nasty plants. :-)

2) Solar power generation of the water boiler type (PG & E's
Mojave plant for instance) can eaily supply the power. nce
you are pumping water mainly you can use hydraulic storage.

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End of Space Digest Volume 15 : Issue 190
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